You may wish to see my work with the Hong MTRC (Mass Transit Railway Corporation) in 2000 as they extended the TKE line into the New Territories. Reduced initial costs by 40%, came in two months early
I get the sense, Lonnie, that we're in a competition here for understanding and you wish your view to win. In this you've missed my point entirely in order to recast it as really reflective of your own. I cannot win for losing to you, apparently.
I can send you a slide show and a report to an Engineering conference. Can I do that through this site and retain confidential information, Christopher?
I suggest sanitizing the document and sharing it privately, preferably by a link to an online repository like Google Docs or OneDrive. Substack doesn't support secure file sharing that I'm aware of.
What comes to mind for me of an example of win/win competition aligns with the Alfred Politz quote at the top of Chapter 1 in The New Economics: "Nothing can do you so much harm as a lousy competitor. Be thankful for a good competitor."
I've been a distance runner since my second year at university. Over that time I've seen Lousy Competitors who need to let me know I'm not as good as they are, what qualifying time they got for Boston, what their latest PB for a 5k is, etc. Their interest wasn't to improve the sport or help others to improve, but to out-compete everyone they know, let them know about it, and soak up the adulation. I often wonder where these "winners" are today.
By contrast, I've seen Good Competitors in running clubs and races who try to help their fellow runners improve. It can be by running with them during training, some advice before and after about different techniques to improve pace or how to take fluids without making yourself barf at the 15th km. They're generous with their advice and support; their aim is to help everyone get better, and to encourage people to enter runs and build interest in running.
During half-marathons, I've been paced back into race by total strangers who saw me struggling, at a potential hit to their own chip time and standing, but did it anyway because they're good competitors and want me to finish the race as well as **I** could. Their aim wasn't to win to best me or anyone else, but to build a community of better runners of a variety of capabilities who will go on to help others improve their "competitive position" and make the sport more welcoming to others, to grow the pool.
I think of this as in simpatico with what Dr. Deming meant when he said, "There will be inequalities and some people will win more than others, but everyone will still gain."
So, this is one example where I see, from my own practical experience, the difference in views on competition that align with what Deming's, vis-a-vis WIN/LOSE vs. WIN/WIN.
Lonnie, It seems to me to be the other way around. Do you agree that ours/the Greeks, is a valid definition? Did it result in the average coming down for the group? Probably, but that was not our goal, which was to become better at jogging, e.g. taking on steeper slopes, rougher terrain and completing 10ks , half marathons and marathons. We found that just by running with the group made us better runners and yes, faster.
So, what actually is your definition of competition and not just what you think its raison detre is?
You may wish to see my work with the Hong MTRC (Mass Transit Railway Corporation) in 2000 as they extended the TKE line into the New Territories. Reduced initial costs by 40%, came in two months early
Lonnie, I am such a maven with technology. Here is my twitter: John Carlisle
@ProJohnCarlisl. If you message me there I think we can work out a plan to get the MTRC construction document to you?
I get the sense, Lonnie, that we're in a competition here for understanding and you wish your view to win. In this you've missed my point entirely in order to recast it as really reflective of your own. I cannot win for losing to you, apparently.
CRC.
Check my comment about the MTRC partnerships. Everyone won, especially the commuters.
Remind me tomorrow pm. I am currently at the opera
I can send you a slide show and a report to an Engineering conference. Can I do that through this site and retain confidential information, Christopher?
I suggest sanitizing the document and sharing it privately, preferably by a link to an online repository like Google Docs or OneDrive. Substack doesn't support secure file sharing that I'm aware of.
Hi Lonnie;
What comes to mind for me of an example of win/win competition aligns with the Alfred Politz quote at the top of Chapter 1 in The New Economics: "Nothing can do you so much harm as a lousy competitor. Be thankful for a good competitor."
I've been a distance runner since my second year at university. Over that time I've seen Lousy Competitors who need to let me know I'm not as good as they are, what qualifying time they got for Boston, what their latest PB for a 5k is, etc. Their interest wasn't to improve the sport or help others to improve, but to out-compete everyone they know, let them know about it, and soak up the adulation. I often wonder where these "winners" are today.
By contrast, I've seen Good Competitors in running clubs and races who try to help their fellow runners improve. It can be by running with them during training, some advice before and after about different techniques to improve pace or how to take fluids without making yourself barf at the 15th km. They're generous with their advice and support; their aim is to help everyone get better, and to encourage people to enter runs and build interest in running.
During half-marathons, I've been paced back into race by total strangers who saw me struggling, at a potential hit to their own chip time and standing, but did it anyway because they're good competitors and want me to finish the race as well as **I** could. Their aim wasn't to win to best me or anyone else, but to build a community of better runners of a variety of capabilities who will go on to help others improve their "competitive position" and make the sport more welcoming to others, to grow the pool.
I think of this as in simpatico with what Dr. Deming meant when he said, "There will be inequalities and some people will win more than others, but everyone will still gain."
So, this is one example where I see, from my own practical experience, the difference in views on competition that align with what Deming's, vis-a-vis WIN/LOSE vs. WIN/WIN.
CRC.
Chris, it is said that the term in ancient Greece for competition meant getting better together. That is exactly what happened in our jogging club.
Lonnie, It seems to me to be the other way around. Do you agree that ours/the Greeks, is a valid definition? Did it result in the average coming down for the group? Probably, but that was not our goal, which was to become better at jogging, e.g. taking on steeper slopes, rougher terrain and completing 10ks , half marathons and marathons. We found that just by running with the group made us better runners and yes, faster.
So, what actually is your definition of competition and not just what you think its raison detre is?