Steve Jobs on Quality and Juran
Surfacing a "Lost" Interview from the 90s
THE AIM for this newsletter is to share a video of the late, great Steve Jobs, where he is interviewed about the influence Dr. Joseph Juran had on his thinking about quality at NeXT where he was CEO from 1985 to 1997, before the company was folded into Apple. Many new aficionados of the Deming school of quality may not know that there was more than one American thought leader who helped the Japanese miracle along, and you really can’t go too far in studying one without hearing about the others.
For example, as some long-time readers will recall, in our July 14/21 newsletter I wrote about the influence Juran had on Dr. Deming’s thinking regarding his famous “causes” maxim (96% of issues are attributable to common causes, ie. the system, 4% special causes), as retold by Dr. Henry Neave in his book, The Deming Dimension. Deming initially adopted Juran’s 85/15 system to special causes ratio, and later increased it based on his own observations.
Interview Highlights
Any quality junkie will enjoy this trip down memory lane as Jobs goes through some “hits” that will resonate:
Leading with Humility and Respect
Jobs reveals part-way through the interview his admiration and respect for the way Dr. Juran treated everyone equally and without judgment, even when asking him “the most foolish question”, a parallel with Dr. Deming’s approach regarding workers (mark 04:18):
Why Should People Care?
Early in the interview, Jobs is asked why the American people, in the era of Madonna and Schwarzenegger, should care about an “old guy with a bowtie”. Jobs provides an eloquent defense that could be equally said of what motivated the original Deming renaissance in the 1980s (mark 02:09):
Was Jobs Familiar with Deming?
Surprisingly: No. (mark 10:49):
Improving Quality through Scientific Method
Jobs is asked what he does differently at Apple as a result of his exposure to Juran while at NeXT (mark 07:48)
On Juran’s Mission to Pass On Knowledge
Jobs is asked what qualities of Dr. Juran impressed him most, and provides an eloquent response that could be equally applied to Dr. Deming: a desire to share knowledge. (mark 11:31):
Quality is Determined by the Customer
Jobs is asked early in the interview what he thinks holds American industry back from a focus on improvement of quality and answers that it comes from a misunderstanding of who determines it, ie. the customer, not some industry marketing firm (mark 05:47)
Concluding Thoughts…
This little interview provides some fascinating insights into Jobs that I did not expect. In his later years, he seemed to typify the usual visionary tyrant who practised the prevailing style of management with aplomb, but here we get hints that he was also very interested in learning a different perspective on leadership from a Deming contemporary. I do find it funny that when asked about Deming, he just blithely replies that he’s never met him nor read his books and lets the awkwardness of the answer hang in the air.
Given the parallels between Deming and Juran, not to mention the shared respect and influences, it’s remarkable to consider what Apple could have become with a quality-focused approach to transforming management (see my January 31/23 newsletter).
